cleanup and recovery efforts in the Gulf of Mexico oil slick crude oil spill well pipes gushing oil, cricketdiane, crude oil drilling accident in the Gulf of Mexico, disasters, Gulf oil disaster, oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, oil spill in \, oils spill Gulf of Mexico, spill
My Note –
I am reposting some things I thought might work to harness the oil flowing into the Gulf of Mexico and make it possible to keep it from spreading such that it can be piped off to a tanker and recovered – see below the first section.
Second, the very first group of information I wrote on April 29, 2010 and was really the first thing where I said something about it online probably, unless I sent out some emails – but I don’t think I did at that point. It is the bottom third of the post from that date. The first part of the original post includes a mantra for the real world that you might want to read some time. It is very appropriate given the circumstances generally occurring in our world day-to-day.
Third, just below that I brought forward some of the things known to work that are not toxic which are available for mopping up the oil out of the Gulf waters, marshes and coastal areas. They won’t fix everything or do all of it but they can do a lot more if they are in use than not and they don’t leave a toxic wasteland when they are used.
– cricketdiane, 05-09-10
Group W banking, but then you’d have to know Alice – (title of previous post)
(from post I made on April 29, 2010 – near the bottom third of the post)
just in case – The Group W bench in the title which becomes Group W banking could be an obscure reference to Alice’s Restaurant by Arlo Guthrie, and not just something I made up.
But this – I did make up this (wrote it straight out of my head from my own memories and knowledge of oil spills), while I was taking my bath awhile ago (earlier today) –
Those epic efforts out in the Gulf of Mexico to clean up the oil might have tried those pleated, white filters that are used on heaters – wired together in a long row, because water goes through them but oil does not. It would cost about $20 to get one and find out if it works or not, but it does which I accidentally discovered doing something else trying to filter cement dust out of the air at my parent’s house recently. Somebody needs to go out there and tell them, I’m not the one with a 600 mile wide oil spill, hundreds of people trying to manage it unsuccessfully and with crude oil heading towards the shore.
But, then I’ve been there and done that, so to speak. I’ve been to the beaches in California after an oil spill with the birds laying on the shore covered in black crude and brown gunk from the sand, flopping around with the sounds of dying. And, I’ve stepped over the blanket of tar laden kelp and smelled the fishes that lay dead and dying in the foam of the surf and along the beach.
I’ve used the Ajax powder to try and get the black petroleum off my shoes and off the carpets in the car after we all walked along that beach. I know the dread and horror of what that will be to the businesses and tourist industries along that entire gulf coast from Florida to Louisiana and Texas. But, then – you couldn’t tell them anything about drilling for oil out there in the Gulf – we need that oil – we need those revenues – we need those oil company leases paying off those rigs, etc., etc., etc.,
I can see those tourist brochures now – white sandy beaches covered in coal black mcnasty – oh well. Y’all come now, yah hear? Just like old Granny Clampett says – ya’ll just come on back and spend your money on vacation. And that’s going to be some shrimp jambalaya with a new kind of twang.
What were they thinking? Can I say that they can do as the Republicans suggest and tell each other it doesn’t exist, if they don’t agree with it? Maybe they can hire a pr firm and call it “black sand beaches” and “tar marsh nature lessons camp”. They are not going to like it when that stuff gets to shore, finishes getting to shore and then does what it always does once it is onshore.
Nope, they are not going to think much of the economic revenue that oil is at that point. But, then you just couldn’t tell them anything. Ask Haley Barbour – everything is fine . . .
April 29, 2010
My Note –
There have been news stories tonight on CNN about the oil spill and how they are expecting to fix it – I couldn’t believe that what they are suggesting will take 5 weeks of oil continuing to pump into the water. No – no – no – NO.
That is not acceptable.
I might not be down there helping with it but the least I can do is find something that will first work right now – faster than that. Then they can get along with whatever they’re doing.
So, this is the process. First I looked up a few of the articles to find the depth where the pipes are spewing oil into the ocean of the Gulf of Mexico.
And below these, I started looking for what the depth pressures would be and remembering “into my notes” the other things that I’ve heard on the news or read about the oil spill.
My Notes –
I know the oil being pumped under the water is at approximately 5000 feet down, high pressure, irregular surface area likely, and they have been using robotic submersibles –
there are three pipes, they are leaking 210,000 gallons per day / more or less
CNN reported tonight that the pipes where it is leaking are about a foot diameter? is that correct? And, there is a blow-out protector on top of at least one – or what? was it 50 feet tall on that BOP or was that what they said?
on bloomberg last night’s ticker said the BOP was made by Cameron- which I looked up earlier today – no size immediately noticed – will have to go back to find it – (maybe not necessary)
the oil is getting swept by currents and due to its chemical and characteristic nature is floating quickly toward the surface – but, they also admit that they don’t know the degree to which it is coating undersea surfaces in the immediate area
strong current area?
what type of irregularities exist in the surface features?
how large is the flow are under the water – and how tall are the pipes and BOP together?
could something be designed for later after whatever will fix it now – yes, they are already doing that – and it will have to have some consideration in the immediate design.
get me a tanker, a boom rig and about four boats that can withstand the currents and winds without getting knocked around too bad (plus maybe the rover to check it after the actions.)
where could we get it and what industry has it – doesn’t have to be close by but that would be handier.
(I recognize that I didn’t say the “what” of that sentence but I’ve got an idea and I’m not sure if it would work or even be likely to work yet)
– cricketdiane, 04-29-10
from my blog post about the Group W bench, 04-29-10
(see archives at top of tab in the middle of my page above posts)
Then from my post made the next day (excerpts from the entire post -)
April 30, 2010
alrighty then – first, I need to find what the bottom of the ocean looks like right there and what the immediate ocean currents are in the area – which mean google map maybe and the NOAA satellite stuff or where?
According to GCAGS Transactions, it has an average width of 8 kilometers (km), and a length of 120 km.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A mooring in oceanography is a collection of devices, connected to a wire and temporarily anchored on the sea floor. The devices are current meters to measure the direction and speed of ocean currents, sediment traps to catch settling particles from the water column or experimental chambers, e.g. to measure the solubility of certain substances in sea water. A mooring can be free floating or anchored for some days to weeks (short-time). Long-time moorings might be deployed for a maximum duration of two years. An acoustic release connects the mooring to an anchor weight on the sea floor. The weight is released by sending a coded acoustic command signal from a ship. The weight (e.g. old rail wheels) is unrecoverable. Floaters permit the mooring to come up to the surface to be recovered by a research vessel.
Okay, that would work –
An acoustic release connects the mooring to an anchor weight on the sea floor. The weight is released by sending a coded acoustic command signal from a ship. The weight (e.g. old rail wheels) is unrecoverable. Floaters permit the mooring to come up to the surface to be recovered by a research vessel.
Now, to go find the other part – (my note)
I remember there was an accident where the practice field that was covered by a huge architectural fabric came down on the players – I was thinking that was the Dallas Cowboys stadium – but it was the practice field – that is what they need, then drop the architectural fabric like a tent over the pipes using the acoustic weight mooring system (e.g. old rail wheels). Then, they can take a pipe up under the “tent” and fill a tanker with the stuff to bleed off the oil until they can get the other thing built. (cricketdiane, 04-29-10)
(from the article below about the practice field – )
“The no-frills building was pretty much a 100-yard football field with a few more yards of clearance all the way around. The roof was 80 feet high, the equivalent of an eight-story building.”
Also incredible: An Irving police spokesman said there was hardly any damage beyond the Cowboys’ facility.
Information from ESPN.com’s Matt Mosley and The Associated Press
My Note –
These architectural fabrics wouldn’t cost $4 million dollars for this function, since the Cowboys and other facilities that use it have to accommodate a structure for it besides and the safety of people must be considered. It is strong enough – it can stay put in the currents – the submersibles can tug on it to put it into place a little better if it is generally lined up right to being with and the pressures on the ocean floor at those depths won’t hurt it any.
It can also be weighted effectively with some number of weights and floater system without having a bunch of equipment having to be attached and do it for nearly nothing using old railroad train wheels or something similar and can be placed across an undulating and irregular ocean floor surface and still work.
– it can work – but somebody needs to tell them about it – how likely is that?
Engineers can then get the other programs done without this continuation of pumping 210,000 gallons of oil per day into the gulf for five weeks to three months or however long their programmed solutions will take
Now, let me see if I can figure out how to get the solution to anybody out there at BP or the whoever might do something with it.
Hmmm . . .
Doing it this way – by using architectural fabric such as the Cowboys practice field used, to tent the oil over the pipes where it is pouring out – the setting of the tent and weighted system for it could be accomplished in less than twenty-four hours. It would probably take a day or two to round up the doming fabric – preferably from some use where its pre-made size could be used intact and not manufactured specifically to this purpose.
Where could that be found along the coast somewhere – what about NASA or the NASA complex in Alabama?
– from my post on April 30, 2010
From today’s note about this –
May 9, 2010
After seeing the gas hydrates form in the funnel of the dome containment system that the recovery group was trying to use on one of the pipes leaking oil into the Gulf, I think the architectural fabric option described above would work to raise the ceiling of where the oil could be drawn off without becoming hydrates.
Since that system was confined and confining, it had no flexibility in the design to make it workable once the discovery was made about the clogging of the “funnel”. With the vast array of architectural fabrics available that are used for the roofing structures of everything from practice fields to airports, it seems that something appropriate to the task could be found and let the oil fill it up – then pump it out from that collection point – either by placing a flexible pipe up under the cap of it from underneath or from the sides or from a central point at the top of the fabric far above the ocean floor where the pressures and temperatures are not as tremendous and extreme.
That is my thought about it –
And I know the hair in pantyhose is absolutely known to mop up the oil without leaving a toxic wasteland, it is easy to get back up with scoops or hooks to fill a boat and recover the oil from it, as well. The hair from hair salons, animal groomers and other similar sources is abundant, it is otherwise waste, would cost 50 cents a ton, more or less and pantyhose that can’t be taken to the marketplace for some reason of quality or overruns or being sold at retail clearance facilities to get rid of it is likely just as cheap.
There was a man shown on a brief clip on CNN one day that had made a remedy using peat moss that is on YouTube somewhere and most people have known that a variety of things work better than what is being used. I don’t know why these things were not on the preparations list for this event ahead of time. I don’t want to think about it right now.
But, the fact is the photos on USA Today’s slide show of the Gulf Oil spill and recovery efforts which included a fabric square box and screen system being put out around the wildlife areas and islands by the National Guard or somebody military – has in it a non-toxic substance that can absorb the oil – according to the caption. Why isn’t that on the list as an extensively used solution for the tidal areas? Why wasn’t it among the basic things in the oil spill preparedness kit that was supposedly so ready ahead of time as to just not need anything else>?
Forgive me – I’m being snippity but it has been (conservatively) 210,000 gallons times how many days? And that is if anybody that has calculated it officially has gotten it right? And, now we have toxic dispersants floating around with oil globules that have to be dealt with too, when they knew not to use them in the first place because of the known damages they would cause – permanently and irrevocably. So, just forgive me for being a bit snippity.
I saw it on the bloomberg ticker about them needing new ideas – and I am re-posting some of these things in a group right now. But, doubtless some moron getting paid $300,000 a year will get to be heard and then they will be using some other fool-ass thing that causes more damage than it fixes at a price we all are paying and none of us can afford.
And, on top of it – their way of doing it which further damaged the eco-system already – didn’t even work. So, I don’t expect much – but, here it is – I’m doing it anyway.
– cricketdiane, 05-09/10 – 10
One further note –
and if anybody can get word out to those ninnies out there with the EPA, the Minerals Management Services and BP (and maybe, the other oil producers and their associations) – you tell them this for me –
The next time you pay a lab for millions of dollars worth of work on something that is supposed to do the job to contain an oil spill – make damn good and sure they use conditions actually resembling the real world they are studying. That means waves that don’t move in a sine wave with a height of less than twelve inches which doesn’t fit real world conditions and you know it. And a tank facility with no real water column is bullshit – and the lack of real world wind conditions included in the study means it is invalid for anything that must be used in real world conditions. A\
And those winds don’t just go in one direction with a constant velocity – but swirl around in little eddies above the water making it look more like meringue than a swimming pool.
And, one more thing – the next time – they might spring for a few goldfish and see if the damn chemical dispersants kill them deader than hell before deciding to use it in the Gulf of Mexico or anywhere else.
That’s all for right now. Just don’t even get me started, like I said before.
If it isn’t apparent yet, the fact that I can see this stuff does not make it rocket science. And there is no excuse for people far more educated than I am to have done it this way when they knew better.
(Also tell those jackasses at BP) –
Well, you know – since I have already got started –
you could’ve turned an airboat around and used the fan to move the stupid oil into a corralled space.
you could’ve stuck stupid pleated paper heater filters across the sides and bow of every boat available in the Gulf States and gotten up the oil by moving through it back and forth in a regular way like they mow the grass in stadiums.
you could’ve used the hair in the pantyhose thing and had all of it up by now – some twenty days after the nightmare explosion and leaks started gushing oil into the Gulf of Mexico.
you could’ve had the same thing the National Guard was using and actually kept the oil not only away from significant and extensive areas but absorbed the oil as well while it was at work.
Members of the Army National Guard place Hesco containers along the beaches of Dauphin Island, Ala. The containers are designed to absorb oil through a fibrous material that reacts with a non-harmful material that changes the sheen to a more solid state that can be recycled. * By Michelle Rolls-Thomas, AP * Taken: 5/2/2010 (Photo 50 of 85 – there is another one that shows this barrier used by the National Guard in the series – USA Today)
you could’ve been actually prepared for this extensive event to happen in the event that it did and you could’ve been more accurate in conveying the facts that the oil was coming out of pipes at a significant and pervasive rate instead of acting like it was no big deal until it became one.
I’m sure I’ll think of something else, give me a few minutes.
This was your idea of something that would work? Did it? Was it the best way to do it in the vast ocean oil spills where it has been used or was it used anyway?
Was it designed to work in marine environments where thousands of miles had to be protected with it or was that never considered in evaluating it?
This isn’t bad design – that isn’t the word for it. But, it doesn’t solve the problem in real world conditions and is only partially effective where it has been and is being used. That would’ve told me to do something about it a long time ago before being at the mercy of only that to use the next time.
Now why didn’t any of the participating educated “specialists,” “experts,” and official agencies involved all of whom made far more than I did last year or this one, know to do something about that?
And, before I forget about it – if I can – the idea that to make the saltwater marshes look like a damn golf course with verdant green grasses from over-stimulating their growth with massive amounts of fixed-nitrogen based chemical fertilizers on it is too horrifically and singularly stupid to even want to talk about it. The failure of that well-renowned “scientist” to accommodate the vast array of species, eco-systems, marine wildlife, birds, worms they feed upon, zoa-plankton or whatever else is there – damn – even I know not to do that.
The destruction of those areas that his stupid idea has affected won’t ever come back to normal not in a hundred years from now and the damn oil will still be there whether people can see it or not – in the sea, in the sand, in the sediments, in the filtering systems that animals and plants use to breathe and in their systems they use to feed and in the cells of every last plant and animal there. How in the hell is that supposed to help – I don’t care what your damn studies say and your little micro tank at your fancy lab paid for by who ever it was paid for says about it.
The herring in the Exxon Valdez spill were one of several species that left the area three years after the spill slime cleanup done by the same idea and the rocks pulled from those coves still have black crude filth across them and so do the areas around the sound. There is not one excuse to rationalize this use of massive fertilizers simply because this man has a pretty slide show and can baffle people with his bullshit.
There is an entire system there – not a pie slice. It is coherent and integrated. The addition of the large amounts of fertilizers to encourage certain types of bacterias that will break down the oil in the roots and rhizomes of those grasses is being done at the expense of every thing else in the estuaries, saltwater marshes and everywhere else it has been used. It is not acceptable and once it is used along with the stresses already present from the oil spilled into the area, the particulate matter from the dead air dropping post burn-off pollutants across the area, and the petroleum based fumes that are permeating every last thing in the area – there is no recovery being made available through this additional process that is an added injury on top of it all.
Rather than restore, doing it that way by foisting more unnaturally occurring nitrogen chemicals into these marshlands increases the damages and particularly, the permanent and irreparable damages that are being done to the areas that support wildlife, birds, marine life and ecosystems which cannot be re-made once they are gone.
That’s my last note on it for right now. Just makes me mad enough to spit nails. To think they got that much money to do things that fucked up – it just isn’t right.
And one more thing – to tell BP and their “specialists” in deepsea oil drilling –
What kind of experts wouldn’t know that the oil would become gas hydrate at those depths and conditions?
What kind of experts got 11 people killed on that rig alone and burned down the entire thing requiring tugboats to come put the fire out? And how many other people were injured at the time and how many more are being injured now or might be injured in the activities of cleaning up the mess?
What kind of experts did that?
What kind of specialist said that there wasn’t really an oil leak in the first place when it turned out there were three?
And, what kind of specialist and team of experts made the analysis that there was no significant oil spill leaking into the Gulf of Mexico?
(Among other things . . . )
With that many experts, specialists and knowledgeable professionals highly paid with the entire world of resources at their disposal, I find it hard to believe we are called upon to defer to their expertise at this point considering the results we’ve all seen so far.
Refer to this one – when you get a chance –
My Note –
And I don’t care what credentials and education that those safety specialists have who approved this plan and the other plans that were disastrous in this situation, including those at the BP Corporation, TransOcean, Halliburton, the Mineral Management Service, the Department of Interior, the Bureau of Land Management, the Department of Energy and the EPA (and in the state agencies along the Gulf Coast) – but they don’t need to be working there anymore. Because there are a lot of people that could’ve done a much better and more conscientious job than that who are also well-educated and appropriate to the task, with or without the credentials to do so. And none of us could’ve mucked it up any worse than they have already.
Spain’s ‘Coast of Death’ bears evidence of oil spill 8 years later
“We couldn’t come out here,” he said, pointing at the beach. “It was all full of black sludge. Black, black, black. Wherever you put your feet, you had to wear boots and protection.”
Millions of gallons of oil began washing up. Locals called it la marea negra, or the black tide.
It was one of the worst oil spills in modern history.
More than 100,000 volunteers traveled to Galicia to help in a clean-up effort that eventually cost Spain and the European Union billions of euros.
According to the World Wildlife Fund, the pollution killed an estimated 250,000 sea birds. The oil spill also ground Galicia’s multimillion-dollar fishing industry to a halt.
Today, locals point to the rocky beach at Cuña. Despite nearly eight years of wind, surf and rain, thick black tar still clings to the rocks.
A 2006 study by Spain’s University of La Coruna concluded that volunteers working on the oil slick clean-up showed evidence of “an increase in the level of genetic damage in blood cells.” Researchers also detected higher levels of heavy metals in these volunteers, similar to tobacco smokers. The study concluded that clean-up crews were provided with inadequate face masks and protective gear to protect them from airborne contaminants.
(excerpts from the story – lots of good information and a slide show of it)
Now, I will try to stop insulting the experts and specialists in this oil spill disaster if they can start acting like they know what they are doing with intelligent applications of everything available on the menu instead of only the three things they’ve already been doing that haven’t worked.
– cricketdiane, 05-10-10
You’ve got to see these –
Photo 22 / 36
Photo 23 / 36
Photo 3 / 36
Photo 1 / 36
Documents show the oil industry knew for years of significant problems with the blowout preventers, known as BOPs, ABC News said.
While BP has said it will pay compensation for “legitimate and objectively verifiable” individual claims, there is already concern the company is short-changing Gulf Coast residents.
Alabama’s Attorney General Troy King on Sunday said he told BP to stop circulating settlement agreements among coastal residents that he said stripped people of their right to sue in exchange for $5,000.
BP also on Sunday altered the terms of its waivers for volunteer clean up respondents after it came under scrutiny for forcing the volunteers to give up their right to sue in the case of an accident.
My Note –
I noticed on the news yesterday that they are finally getting oil absorbing booms out into the Gulf Coast areas – why didn’t they do that in the first place?
And this solution below could work – but it sounds like they are simply getting further permissions from the EPA or whoever to place significantly more chemical dispersants into the water column where the oil is leaking and that permission was given today.
They have already distributed more than 325,000 gallons of the dispersant as reported in the news about it carried in China, I think it was. Their only backup plans include stuffing the blowout preventer that had failed with rubber scrap to clog it up, and the drilling of a relief well which is continuing.
From yesterday – this is my solution which can be done from the ship using a hose to send it to the seabed in a controlled way – and the rovers can be used to manipulate its placements. –
My Note –
One other thought I had – they could freeze the pipe leak shut with liquid nitrogen like they do in science labs. Might work. Its the right pressure for it – they ought to look at that option.