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The IOOS Observation Registry is a project initiated by the IOOS community to inventory non-Federal observing assets in the United States. With low barrier to participation the Registry provides a simple mechanism for regional data collectors to report on their real-time observations, enabling them to share the most recent descriptions of their deployments. With information streams coming in from all areas of the coastal U.S., Great Lakes, and Hawaiian Islands, the Registry provides the IOOS community with a fresh picture of non-Federal observing activities every 24 hours. More…

http://www.obsregistry.org/index.php

***

My Note -

I’m going to try and follow along this time – to map out the information and how to find it in the same way I did a few days ago, such that someone that would like to – can follow the trail and maybe find some other things beyond what I may have thought important right this very minute . . . .

Started with the IOOS Observation Registry because that was left from the last post I was working to do about the Gulf of Mexico Oil Spoils – Oil Spill, rather.

The next thing I wanted to do was to see a couple things that people made comments to tell me about a reference – one is about geotextiles – maybe something that can be used to help with the oil spill disaster and the other is a business involved with sea grass restoration of some kind.

So first – I’m posting the US chart from the IOOS Observation Group site – so I can go back to it and see what information resources are coming from them – especially in current information – and then, I’ll go check the other two things right quick and add them, if appropriate.

- cricketdiane, 05-11-10

***

The IOOS Observation Registry is a project initiated by the IOOS community to inventory non-Federal observing assets in the United States. - partners at the Department of Marine Science, University of South Florida (USF) who have set up a dedicated server for the Observation Registry back-up system.

The IOOS Observation Registry is a project initiated by the IOOS community to inventory non-Federal observing assets in the United States. - partners at the Department of Marine Science, University of South Florida (USF) who have set up a dedicated server for the Observation Registry back-up system.

(from)

REGISTRY OVERVIEW
VISION
For several years the Regional Associations, Ocean.US, the U.S. GOOS Steering Committee, and NOAA have sought to identify and visualize who has what observational assets in the water or on land, and where those assets are located. This information is needed to inform the planning of maintenance and deployment of platforms and sensors. This ‘who, what, and where’ vision of the Registry focuses on non-Federal assets.INITIATION
The IOOS Observation Registry project, which began as a workshop in Woods Hole, MA. in August of 2006, was attended by representatives from many regions and organizations. The workshop participants designed a distributed architecture in which each local contributor creates an XML record set for their sensing assets and publishes that file on a publicly viewable Web server. The authority for each record set resides with the local data provider. The local files implement a prescribed structure using the OGC Geography Markup Language to provide the necessary standardization.

http://www.obsregistry.org/overview.php

***

My Note -

This page above was found by clicking on the word “more” at the bottom of the first paragraph at the top of this post about the IOOS.

Now, I’m going to go find the things suggested on the comments for my blog.

- cricketdiane

***

http://www.albarrie.com/Brochures/SorbWeb-electricity-today-artcile.pdf

This is the pdf site that Patrick sent to me on my blog comments – it is a two-page description of a geotextile containment system used for the oil from transformers to keep it out of the soil. The company has replaced a bentonite used in another type of containment system geotextile with a copolymer set that is specific to allowing water through but maybe containing the oil or something like that. Anyway, it would be worth going to their company website to see what kinds of things they are producing that might help in the situation with the Gulf oil spill and then maybe contacting them with some stupid questions about it to see if it would work.

Going there next -

- cricketdiane

***

So, when I put in the web address from the pdf – it was this -

http://www.sorbwebplus.com

***

Which actually gave this – with a nifty video on the page – (my note)

http://albarrie.com/sorbweb.aspx

http://vimeo.com/2118544

And then, I clicked over to the left sidebar link words – The Solution

That yields this – (my note)

http://albarrie.com/sorbweb/thesolution.aspx

A unique design

SorbWeb™ Plus is a gravity-based subterranean system that surrounds oil-filled equipment with geosynthetic materials. The system effectively traps oil from catastrophic spills and leaks.

Some of the SorbWeb™ Plus system components are:

  • A synthetic impermeable liner
  • An adsorbent filter layer
  • A retention layer of oil-absorbing material that seals on contact with hydrocarbons

Outstanding scientific performance

The SorbWeb™ Plus system has undergone extensive laboratory testing.

Proven real-world success

The SorbWeb™ Plus has been in use since 1996 at several sites in Canada. Successful containment of a 4,000-litre spill was achieved following an accident at a site located along the Don River in Toronto. [The SorbWeb™ installation had been in continuous service for 2 years prior to the incident.]

The SorbWeb™ Plus SOC system was developed in late 2002 and has been commissioned at several sites in Canada.

(etc.)

With this picture on the page – and I don’t know what it is but it is very nifty – (my note)

Passive Oil Spill Containment Technology
SorbWeb™ Plus SOC Passive
oil spill containment technology

http://albarrie.com/sorbweb/thesolution.aspx

***

My Note -

I really liked the video and it shows what happens when oil spills are not contained including the beaches covered with oil, etc. but it never really explained how the system works. However, the above description of its use in Canada does express a bit about it and the pdf expressed it (sort of) which had come from an article or ad/article from Electricity Today, I think.

Regardless, the little tube contraption above which is probably for the company to use at trade shows to explain how it works or something would be perfect for the Gulf of Mexico times about 30,000 of them (more or less). I think it could work.

Wonder how much it would cost for each one and just send the sea water through it, collect up the oil and keep going? (times 30,000 – maybe every American could form a group of ten people, stick some money together and buy one to send out there.)

But, possibly too, the materials that are used to lock in the oil might have potential in some application for the oil spill to be cleaned up and to provide an appropriate barrier system for coastal areas – possibly also to incorporate into drilling operations such that the spill is contained where it happens before it spreads all the hell over the place.

Hmmm….

Now, I want to go to the sea grass thing – to see what it is about (that was suggested on my blog comments today.)

- cricketdiane

***

Wanna see something super nifty – go to this page (I still had it open on a tab) and then click on the tab under the map on the right hand side of the page with the brief look at the US observation sites that says: Launch Map

http://www.obsregistry.org/index.php

And it goes here – and it is awesome -

http://www.obsregistry.org/map.php

You gotta try it.

Very nifty.

***

Alrighty – back to the seagrass recovery thing -

- cricketdiane

***

Made a quickie comment back to the person who was nice enough to take the time and let me know about the geotextile thing for use in oil containment – it is typically been used for soils, but there is potential for this mess in the Gulf.

I wrote him this right quick before moving on -

Very nifty – popped over to their site, watched the video – yes, very nifty, has potential.

Over on the solutions tab from the lefthand side of their website with the video on their sorbweb plus product is a tower looking gizmo probably used to describe what the product does for trade shows or something that looks like it would work to get the oil out of the Gulf of Mexico. Interesting thought.

You wanna email them and ask them or shall I?

- cricketdiane

by the way – thanks for letting me know about it – I added it to my blog for possible solutions, although to be perfectly honest, I don’t thing they’re gonna hear much that any of us have to say about it – but you never know. At least they are finally taking some absorbent booms out to the Gulf that will actually get up some oil at the same time they act as semi-containment systems much like the other booms they’ve already been placing out there.

***

That was my return comment – thought it might be handy – and then I went here – and then another page and I’ve gotta tell you – I want one of these, and I live in an apartment style condo – but I want one -

EnviroLok from SeaGrassRecovery.com - Magic plant walls - retaining wall system

EnviroLok from SeaGrassRecovery.com - Magic plant walls - retaining wall system

(from)

http://www.seagrassrecovery.com/envirolok.htm

The Envirolok System

The Envirolok System is a patent pending erosion control and slope stabilization system that creates vegetated walls in combination with deep-rooted native plants. The Envirolok vegetated retaining walls by Agrecol® are strong, environmentally-friendly alternatives to conventional erosion control systems.

***

My Note -

As backwards as it is – I went to this page first and then the one above after going to the explanation of how their remediation systems for the seagrasses were being used including the degree and type of “plant food” or fertilizer used in their way of doing it -

Which was here -

http://www.seagrassrecovery.com/solutions.htm

At Seagrass Recovery, we have a vast assortment of tools on hand to effectively restore damaged beds.

The success of our innovative techniques have been scientifically evaluated and documented by National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. What’s more, because many of our solutions incorporate patented technologies and one-of-a-kind functionalities, Seagrass Recovery is the only place that can offer such a multitude of unique options.

Using these methods, and others still under development, Seagrass Recovery is able to re-establish, create and enhance the growth of one of the most productive natural communities in the world.

Propeller Scar Damaging Photo Essay

My Note – all very interesting. Lots of potential solutions that could be of some help at some point.

***

And I got there by clicking on the left sidebar link for “Seagrass Solutions” on this page – (so, I tracked it backwards from the way I did it but there you go.)

http://www.seagrassrecovery.com/

***

My Note -

Alright – so they have some potential solutions for some of it – but it looks a little secondary to getting up the oil in some measure immediately before that is going to be practical to restore the wetlands that it destroys.

So, next -

I wanted to find some of today’s pictures of the oil spill damage and the news stories that have come out today about it -

The IOOS map (which I printed for my files first), on one of my open tabs is going to be opened to a google search for

Deepwater Horizon oil spill

Which gives this one that I’m choosing from the list (on google)

- cricketdiane

(Also, a CNN story today on AC360 had a comment from the science guy that the oil is gushing out of that leak at 2000 lbs. of pressure – I do want to look up the idea of that too, and earlier today – I found a discussion on a physorg blog about the methane ice encapsulate crystals they were talking about.)

***

Deepwater Horizon Incident, Gulf of Mexico | Recent and Historical

As the nation’s leading scientific resource for oil spills, NOAA has been on the scene of the Deepwater Horizon spill from the start, providing coordinated
www.deepwaterhorizon.noaa.gov/

My Note – I also noticed this one – so I popped over to both of them -

Deepwater Horizon oil spill | Environment | guardian.co.uk

May 10, 2010 oil spill from the Deepwater Horizon wellhead 9 May 2010: Charges that ecological review waived on 26 new offshore drilling projects come as
http://www.guardian.co.uk/…/deepwater-horizon-oil-spill12 hours ago

Still have the NOAA site open on a tab with the National Ocean Service on another tab – (and to be perfectly honest, I still have two tabs open from something else, one on the Haiti aid that was committed from all the donors the UN lists on three Google spreadsheets and the Springer Online Reference for “Abel Summation Method” based upon the Abel Theorem. – but those are for something else I’m working on, my note)

http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/about/supp_commerce_goal.html

popped over to their weekly news page – using the top bar of tabs above the text on the page – the tab title that says “News” about in the middle of the bar

http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/news/weeklynews/

My Note – apparently they didn’t have an oil spill of national significance this week or last week or the week before – when did that damn thing happen?

April 20, the explosion – killed 11 people

April 22, the drilling platform / derrick whatever that was a $700 million dollar thing to hear BP tell it  – finished melting into the sea still ablaze

April 24, there began to be some evidence that the oil spilling out of something at the seabed was putting out more than a little bit

April 25, there are pictures of the oil streaking through the ocean of the Gulf of Mexico and the oil company has already started putting dispersants

and on and on and on – with dead animals, oil covered birds, dead marine things – oil slicks that cover thousands of square miles and thick, icky oil

- okay – they are clueless.

***

Back to the other part -

found the article below at this site (from the google search above)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/deepwater-horizon-oil-spill

(And this one – )

***

www.deepwaterhorizon.noaa.gov/

oil spill trajectory map - NOAA - May 10, 2010 - from Deepwater Horizon Gulf of Mexico crude oil drilling disaster and resultant crude oil spill that started April 20, 2010

oil spill trajectory map - NOAA - May 10, 2010 - from Deepwater Horizon Gulf of Mexico crude oil drilling disaster and resultant crude oil spill that started April 20, 2010

(from)

http://www.deepwaterhorizon.noaa.gov/

Updated daily
Situation: Monday 10 May

Weather conditions today permitted aerial dispersant application but vessel skimming and in-situ burning operations were halted. Over 1.1 million feet of boom have been placed and drilling continues on the relief wells. Due to the complications with the first experimental containment dome an alternative structure is being developed.

The alternative is called a “top hat”. This structure plans to use warm water and methanol going down the riser to help prevent ice crystals from forming.

Overflights today matched well with NOAA trajectory forecasts. The latest forecast indicates that SE winds will persist through the week and continue to move the oil westward.

By the Numbers to Date:

  • Personnel were quickly deployed and approximately 10,000 are currently responding to protect the shoreline and wildlife.
  • More than 290 vessels are responding on site, including skimmers, tugs, barges, and recovery vessels to assist in containment and cleanup efforts—in addition to dozens of aircraft, remotely operated vehicles, and multiple mobile offshore drilling units.
  • More than 1 million feet of boom (regular and sorbent) have been deployed to contain the spill—and more than 1.3 million feet are available.
  • Nearly 3.5 million gallons of an oil-water mix have been recovered.
  • Approximately 325,000 gallons of dispersant have been deployed. More than 500,000 gallons are available.
  • 14 staging areas have been set up to protect vital shoreline in all potentially affected Gulf Coast states (Biloxi, Miss., Pascagoula, Miss., Pensacola, Fla., Panama City, Fla., Dauphin Island, Ala., Grand Isle, La., Shell Beach, La., Slidell, La., Venice, La., Orange Beach, Al., Theodore, Al., Pass Christian, Ms., Amelia, La., and Cocodrie, La.).

NOAA’s Damage Assessment Remediation and Restoration Program (DARRP) is conducting a Natural Resource Damage Assessment (NRDA).

From past experience, NOAA is concerned about oil impacts to fish, shellfish, marine mammals, turtles, birds and other sensitive resources, as well as their habitats, including wetlands, mudflats, beaches, bottom sediments and the water column.

Any lost uses of these resources, for example, fishery and beach closures, will also be evaluated. The focus currently is to assemble existing data on resources and their habitats and collect baseline (pre-spill impact) data. Data on oiled resources and habitats are also being collected.

  • For response-related inquiries, please phone the Joint Information Center (JIC) at 985.902.5231 or 985.902.5240.
  • To report oil on land, or for general community information, please phone 866.448.5816.
  • To report oiled or injured wildlife, please phone 866.557.1401.
  • To learn about volunteer opportunities in all areas and what training is required, please phone 866.448.5816.
  • To discuss spill related damage claims, please phone 800.440.0858.
  • BP is asking fishermen for their assistance in cleaning up the oil spill. BP is calling this the Vessel of Opportunities Program and through it, BP is looking to contract shrimp boats, oyster boats and other vessels for hire to deploy boom in the Gulf of Mexico. To learn more about the Vessel of Opportunity Program, fishermen should phone 281.366.5511.

http://www.deepwaterhorizon.noaa.gov/

(lot’s more good info at the bottom of this page – other NOAA / EPA sites)

***

My Note -

From this group I noticed this -

“Nearly 3.5 million gallons of an oil-water mix have been recovered.”

from a place where 210,000 gallons or more are spewing into the Gulf of Mexico every single day since April 20 when the rig exploded? Are they not in the same time zone with the reality of volume involved in this ecological disaster?

Do they not perceive the difference between 3.5 million gallons of oil and water mixed with the total oil slick and thick crude oil that has been spreading across the marine environment at every level of the water column as well as swimming across its surface, along with the additional chemical dispersants mixed with oil in nasty globules?

Alrighty then.

- cricketdiane

***

Go look for pictures from today –

guardian.co.uk, Monday 10 May 2010 19.39 BST

An oil soaked bird struggles against the side of the HOS Iron Horse supply vessel at the site of the Deepwater Horizon oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico off the coast of Louisiana. Photograph: Gerald Herbert/AP (Guardian / UK) - May 10, 2010

An oil soaked bird struggles against the side of the HOS Iron Horse supply vessel at the site of the Deepwater Horizon oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico off the coast of Louisiana. Photograph: Gerald Herbert/AP (Guardian / UK) - May 10, 2010

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/may/10/deepwater-horizon-oil-junk-shot

Nearly three weeks after an oil rig explosion turned the Gulf of Mexico into an environmental disaster zone, BP today still casting about for a clear plan to shut off the gusher of crude that has cost the company $350m (£235m).

BP crews were simultaneously exploring a number of different approaches to plugging the leak, known in industry slang as top hat, top kill, and junk shot.

But all of those options are highly challenging. “You are doing this at 5,000 feet water depth, under immense pressure and in complete darkness and you’re doing all this with remote vehicles,” said Byron King, an energy industry analyst. “You are feeling your way around, and that is a very tricky idea.” They also carry the risk of making the disaster even worse, said Philip Johnson, a petroleum engineering professor at the University of Alabama.

(etc.)

The initial effort was scrapped because of the formation of ice-like hydrates, a mixture of water and gas, which clogged up the four-storey-high concrete and steel box.

***

My Note -

Started back here again –

http://www.deepwaterhorizon.noaa.gov/

My note -

I chose one of the two black and white photos of the spill on the right hand side of the page from April 30 -

Imagery from 30Apr2351UTC

Gulf of Mexico


Subject Imagery from 30Apr2351UTC
Posting Date 2010-May-01
Imagery from 30Apr2351UTC Gulf of Mexico - NOAA - COSMO_SAR_30Apr10_2351UTC_CSTARS - oil spill Gulf of Mexico Deepwater Horizon

Imagery from 30Apr2351UTC Gulf of Mexico - NOAA - COSMO_SAR_30Apr10_2351UTC_CSTARS - oil spill Gulf of Mexico Deepwater Horizon

Imagery from 30Apr2351UTC Gulf of Mexico - NOAA - COSMO_SAR_30Apr10_2351UTC_CSTARS - oil spill Gulf of Mexico Deepwater Horizon

Imagery from 30Apr2351UTC Gulf of Mexico - NOAA - COSMO_SAR_30Apr10_2351UTC_CSTARS - oil spill Gulf of Mexico Deepwater Horizon

(from)

http://www.incidentnews.gov/entry/526479

***

And now from my notes about the fire ice stuff -

PIA13085-640.jpg
The massive oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico is shown in these two images from instruments onboard NASA’s Terra spacecraft. The left image is from the Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer; the right, higher resolution inset image is from the Advanced Spaceborne Thermal Emission and Reflection Radiometer. Image credit: NASA/GSFC/METI/ERSDAC/JAROS, NASA/Goddard/MODIS Rapid Response Team and U.S./Japan ASTER Science Team
› Full image and caption

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-147

May 03, 2010

A pair of instruments aboard NASA’s Terra spacecraft captured these images of the growing oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico on May 1, 2010. The larger image, from NASA’s Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer (MODIS), shows the spill in the context of its proximity to the Gulf Coast. The inset image was captured by the highest-resolution instrument aboard NASA’s Terra spacecraft, the Advanced Spaceborne Thermal Emission and Reflection Radiometer (ASTER).

On April 20, 2010, an explosion destroyed the Deepwater Horizon oil platform operating in the Gulf of Mexico 80 kilometers (50 miles) offshore, resulting in substantial loss of life and releasing 5,000 barrels of oil per day into the water. The huge oil slick was being carried towards the Mississippi River Delta, and was expected to reach the Louisiana, Alabama, and Mississippi shores as early as Monday, May 3.

The ASTER image is located at 29.0 degrees north latitude, 88.3 degrees west longitude and covers an area measuring 79.1 by 103.9 kilometers (49 by 64.4 miles), about 32 kilometers (20 miles) west of the mouth of the Mississippi River delta. No land is visible in the image.

The varying shades of white in the image reflect different thicknesses of oil (the whiter, the thicker the oil). The source of the oil spill is visible as the bright white area in the bottom center of the image. The thickest part of the spill extends vertically from it, appearing somewhat like the ash plume of an erupting volcano. The wispy patterns of the oil spill reflect the transport of the oil by waves and currents.

Alan Buis 818-354-0474
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
Alan.buis@jpl.nasa.gov

2010-147

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-147

***

* Earth Sciences
* Astronomy
* Environment
* Space Exploration

Image: NASA Satellite Imagery Keeping Eye on the Gulf Oil Spill
May 4, 2010

www.physorg.com/news192214839.html

450147main_gulf_tmo_2010121_lrg.jpg

The Deepwater Horizon oil spill (appearing as a dull gray color) is southeast of the Mississippi Delta in this May 1, 2010, image from NASA’s MODIS instrument. Credit: NASA/Goddard/MODIS Rapid Response Team

(PhysOrg.com) — NASA’s Terra satellite flew over the Deepwater Horizon rig’s oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico on Saturday, May 1 and captured a natural-color image of the slick from space. The oil slick resulted from an accident at the Deepwater Horizon rig in the Gulf of Mexico.

The Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer (MODIS) instrument on NASA’s Terra satellite captured a natural-color image. The oil slick appeared as a tangle of dull gray on the ocean surface, made visible to the satellite sensor by the sun’s reflection on the ocean surface. On May 1, most of the oil slick was southeast of the Mississippi Delta.

On Sunday, May 2, NOAA restricted fishing in federal waters of the Gulf of Mexico from the mouth of the Mississippi to Pensacola Bay for at least ten days.

Image: NASA Satellite Imagery Keeping Eye on the Gulf Oil Spill

www.physorg.com/news192214839.html

My Note -

The physorg group that was bouncing around an understanding of this is below the quickie wikipedia entry – gone to look up methane clathrate -

- cricketdiane

***

A clathrate, clathrate compound or cage compound is a chemical substance consisting of a lattice of one type of molecule trapping and containing a second type of molecule.

A clathrate hydrate, in particular, is a special type of gas hydrate in which a lattice of water molecules encloses molecules of a trapped gas. Large amounts of methane naturally frozen in this form have been discovered both in permafrost formations and under the ocean sea-bed.[1]

(etc.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_compound

(also)

Pearce, Fred (27 June 2009). “Ice on fire: The next fossil fuel”. New Scientiest. pp. 30–33. http://www.newscientist.com/search?doSearch=true&query=clathrates. Retrieved 2009-07-05.

***

May8-10, 08:26 PM                          #1
Mark24

Freezing in the gulf oil pipeline
I was wondering if someone could explain how ice crystals are being formed in the tank/pipeline BP is trying to use to stem the flood of oil pumping into the ocean.

A friend and me were discussing it and a few questions came to mind about it, not just related to this issue. He suggested that the higher pressures deep in the ocean lower the freezing point of water enough so that it does not freeze, which seemed plausible to me. But after looking it up, it sounds as though pressure has a very small effect on the freezing temperature – something like 135atms of pressure being necessary to lower the freezing temp by 1C.

But ice always seems to form at the surface of a body of water and never in the deep. Is this because the ground at the bottom of the sea floor is always warmer than freezing temperature and the temperatures at the surface?
Mark24

PhysOrg.com
PhysOrg

earth sciences news on PhysOrg.com

>> NASA Captures Night Infrared View of Gulf Oil Spill
>> Quantum mechanics reveals new details of deep earth
>> Did Phosphorus Trigger Complex Evolution — and Blue Skies?
**

May8-10, 10:52 PM                      #2
skeptic2

Re: Freezing in the gulf oil pipeline
I was a little surprised to hear that the temperature of the water at the bottom was about 10 F above freezing. I had expected it to be the temperature at which water is the most dense, which for fresh water is about 39 F. I don’t know what it is for salt water.

Suppose there are bubbles of methane rising with the petroleum. As they rise they should expand about 150 times due to the reduction in pressure. Would that expansion cause the methane to cool and perhaps freeze the water next to it?
skeptic2

**

03:59 PM                      #3
eachus

Re: Freezing in the gulf oil pipeline
No, the problem/issue is that methane clathrates are stable at room temperature under high pressure. These are a combination of methane (CH4, a gas at standard temperature and pressure), and water. It is not a compound, but the presence of the methane (or other molecules in non-methane clathrates) stabilizes the crystalline structure and increases the freezing point of the water.

In other words, the clathrate is energetically favorable when the methane gas is under pressure. Water normally expands as it freezes, but methane clathrate takes up less space than the water and methane it is formed from.

Incidentally, like ice, methane clathrate will sit around melting at room temperature and pressure, and you may be able to find photos of burning methane clathrate on the web. But it is pretty tricky to try to extract large amounts of methane from clathrates. The methane contains about as much energy when burned as the clathrate takes to melt. So if you mine chunks of methane clathrate from the sea, you need to let them melt, probably in a sea water bath, over a period of weeks–depending on the size of the chunks you mine. It would be nice to be able to use that cooling somehow, but transporting the clathrate probably costs too much.

Oh, and part of the problem with extracting the methane from the clathrate is that it is a much better insulator than regular ice. That and the fact that it is heavier than water means that all the scare stories about global warming from clathrates are bunk. Clathrates fall once they are formed, then effectively tunnel into the seabed over time. The ocean level would have to drop about 100 meters for a significant amount of methane clathrate to be where it could melt–and then it would take a couple thousand years. Most climate models predict ocean levels rising due to global warming, anyway.

Oh, and there is a really neat trick which may be the solution to the CO2 problem. Liquid CO2 is heavier than water, and forms clathrates just like methane. So collect CO2 pressurize it to make it a liquid, and dump it in the deep ocean. It will eventually form clathrates that will stay in place for millions of years.

Why is no one advocating this? Where do you get the energy to compress the CO2? Nuclear power is the only real answer. (Well, knock the price of solar cells down by a factor of ten and they may work.) Now in either case, there is no real reason to burn coal, then spend most of the energy generated dealing with the CO2 formed.
eachus

**

06:53 PM                      #4
PRDan4th

Re: Freezing in the gulf oil pipeline
Originally Posted by eachus View Post

No, the problem/issue is that methane clathrates are stable at room temperature under high pressure. These are a combination of methane (CH4, a gas at standard temperature and pressure), and water. It is not a compound, but the presence of the methane (or other molecules in non-methane clathrates) stabilizes the crystalline structure and increases the freezing point of the water.

In other words, the clathrate is energetically favorable when the methane gas is under pressure. Water normally expands as it freezes, but methane clathrate takes up less space than the water and methane it is formed from.

Incidentally, like ice, methane clathrate will sit around melting at room temperature and pressure, and you may be able to find photos of burning methane clathrate on the web. But it is pretty tricky to try to extract large amounts of methane from clathrates. The methane contains about as much energy when burned as the clathrate takes to melt. So if you mine chunks of methane clathrate from the sea, you need to let them melt, probably in a sea water bath, over a period of weeks–depending on the size of the chunks you mine. It would be nice to be able to use that cooling somehow, but transporting the clathrate probably costs too much.

Oh, and part of the problem with extracting the methane from the clathrate is that it is a much better insulator than regular ice. That and the fact that it is heavier than water means that all the scare stories about global warming from clathrates are bunk. Clathrates fall once they are formed, then effectively tunnel into the seabed over time. The ocean level would have to drop about 100 meters for a significant amount of methane clathrate to be where it could melt–and then it would take a couple thousand years. Most climate models predict ocean levels rising due to global warming, anyway.

Oh, and there is a really neat trick which may be the solution to the CO2 problem. Liquid CO2 is heavier than water, and forms clathrates just like methane. So collect CO2 pressurize it to make it a liquid, and dump it in the deep ocean. It will eventually form clathrates that will stay in place for millions of years.

Why is no one advocating this? Where do you get the energy to compress the CO2? Nuclear power is the only real answer. (Well, knock the price of solar cells down by a factor of ten and they may work.) Now in either case, there is no real reason to burn coal, then spend most of the energy generated dealing with the CO2 formed.

You are right about methane clathrates forming at deep water pressure and low, but above freezing, temperatures. You are wrong about clathrates being heaver than water, they float. The large sub-sea methane clathrate beds are under the sea floor and form a matrix with sand or mud and stay below the sea-bed. The reason the funnel box in the Gulf of Mexico is fouling with methane/ice is that they form above the sea-bed and float to the top and stick to the box and accumulate like snow or ice blocks stopping the flow of oil and water/gas through the funnel.
PRDan4th

**
08:06 PM                      #5
Xnn

Re: Freezing in the gulf oil pipeline
Methane clathrate floats in water as its density is around 0.9 gm/cc.

http://en.allexperts.com/e/m/me/methane_clathrate.htm

It can quickly form when methane gas leaks out of a well and comes in contact with high pressure water. At great depths and high pressures, it can be stable at temperatures as high as 18C. Closer to the surface, it is unstable above OC.

As permafrost melts, methane is released.
Xnn

**
10:27 PM                      #6
croghan27

Re: Freezing in the gulf oil pipeline
As methane is released from deep in the earth, where it is under terrific pressures, it expands rapidly …. this is the same phenenoma that operates refrigerators and air conditioning systems … the refrigerant expanding. Would not this, when it happens to the methane, tend to lower the temperature of the water about the emerging gas and cause it to form ice – giving a misture of methane and ice?

croghan27

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=401876

***

My Note -

found a nifty picture on the wikipedia site about methane clathrate -

Specific structure of a gas hydrate piece, from the subduction zone off Oregon

Specific structure of a gas hydrate piece, from the subduction zone off Oregon

Methane clathrate, also called methane hydrate, methane ice or “fire ice” is a solid clathrate compound (more specifically, a clathrate hydrate) in which a large amount of methane is trapped within a crystal structure of water, forming a solid similar to ice.[1] Originally thought to occur only in the outer regions of the Solar System where temperatures are low and water ice is common, significant deposits of methane clathrate have been found under sediments on the ocean floors of Earth.[2]

Methane clathrates are common constituents of the shallow marine geosphere, and they occur both in deep sedimentary structures, and as outcrops on the ocean floor. Methane hydrates are believed to form by migration of gas from depth along geological faults, followed by precipitation, or crystallization, on contact of the rising gas stream with cold sea water. Methane clathrates are also present in deep Antarctic ice cores, and record a history of atmospheric methane concentrations, dating to 800,000 years ago.[3] The ice-core methane clathrate record is a primary source of data for global warming research, along with oxygen and carbon dioxide.

While it is stable at a temperature of up to around 0 °C, at higher pressures methane clathrates remain stable up to 18 °C. The average methane clathrate hydrate composition is 1 mole of methane for every 5.75 moles of water, though this is dependent on how many methane molecules “fit” into the various cage structures of the water lattice. The observed density is around 0.9 g/cm³.[4] One liter of methane clathrate solid would therefore contain, on average, 168 liters of methane gas (at STP).

"Burning ice". Methane, released by heating, burns; water drips. Inset: clathrate structure (University of Göttingen, GZG. Abt. Kristallographie). Source: United States Geological Survey.

"Burning ice". Methane, released by heating, burns; water drips. Inset: clathrate structure (University of Göttingen, GZG. Abt. Kristallographie). Source: United States Geological Survey.

Effect of hydrate phase transition during deep water drilling

When drilling in oil and gas-bearing formations submerged in deep water, the reservoir gas may flow into the well bore and form gas hydrates due to the low temperatures and high pressures found during deep water drilling.

The gas hydrates may then flow upward with drilling mud or other discharged fluids. As they rise, the pressure in the drill string decreases and the hydrates dissociate into gas and water. The rapid gas expansion ejects fluid from the well, reducing the pressure further, which leads to more hydrate dissociation and further fluid ejection.

The resulting violent expulsion of fluid from the drill string is referred to as a “kick”.[28]

Measures which reduce the risk of hydrate formation include:

  • High flow-rates in the drill string, which limit the time for hydrate formation in a volume of fluid, thereby reducing the kick potential.[28]
  • Careful measuring of line flow to detect incipient hydrate plugging.[28]
  • Additional care in measuring when gas production rates are low, and the possibility of hydrate formation is higher than at relatively high gas flow rates.[28]
  • Monitoring of well casing after it is “shut in” (isolated) will indicate hydrate formation. Following “shut in”, the pressure rises as gas diffuses through the reservoir to the bore hole; the rate of pressure rise will exhibit a reduced rate of increase when hydrates are forming.[28]
  • Additions of energy (e.g., the energy released by setting concrete used in well completion) can convert hydrates to gas, producing a “kick”.

An uncontrolled “kick” can lead to a blow out.

Blowout recovery

Concept diagram of oil containment domes, acting as upsidedown funnels to pipe oil to surface ships. The sunken oil rig is nearby.

At sufficient depths, methane reacts directly with water to form methane hydrates, as was observed during the Deepwater Horizon oil spill in 2010.

BP engineers developed and deployed a subsea oil recovery system over oil spilling from a deepwater oil well 5,000 feet (1,500 m) below sea level to capture escaping oil.

This involved placing a 125-tonne (280,000 lb) dome over the largest of the well leaks and piping it to a storage vessel on the surface.[29] This option had the potential to collect as much as 85% of the leaking oil but is previously untested at such depths.[29]

BP deployed the system on May 7-8, when it failed due to buildup of methane clathrate inside the dome; with its low density of ~ 0.9gm/cm3 the methane hydrates accumulated in the dome, adding buoyancy and obstructing flow.

A smaller, more massive dome is being prepared for a second attempt; the reduced size may limit the opportunity for methane escaping from the well to react with water and form methane hydrate.

Should this be successful, engineers will still have to contend with the volumetric expansion of the methane (an increase of 140 in gaseous methane volume) as it rises to the surface.[30]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate

***

My Note -

Now I’m doing a search for photos using google image search using the terms – crude oil petroleum

Which gives me this selection – I’m looking for some charts, graphs, maps, and photos of the Gulf of Mexico Deepwater Horizon oil spill from today or this weekend -

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=imghp&q=crude+oil+petroleum&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

***

I chose this one -

www.ceoe.udel.edu/oilspill/crudeoil.html

Refining is the complex series of processes that manufactures finished petroleum products out of crude oil. While refining begins as simple distillation (by heating and separating), refiners must use more sophisticated additional processes and equipment in order to produce the mix of products that the market demands. Generally, this latter effort minimizes the production of heavier, lower value products (for example, residual fuel oil, used to power large ocean-going ships) in favor of middle distillates (jet fuel, kerosene, home heating oil and diesel fuel) and lighter, higher value products (liquid petroleum gases (LPG), naphtha, and gasoline).

Refining is the complex series of processes that manufactures finished petroleum products out of crude oil. While refining begins as simple distillation (by heating and separating), refiners must use more sophisticated additional processes and equipment in order to produce the mix of products that the market demands. Generally, this latter effort minimizes the production of heavier, lower value products (for example, residual fuel oil, used to power large ocean-going ships) in favor of middle distillates (jet fuel, kerosene, home heating oil and diesel fuel) and lighter, higher value products (liquid petroleum gases (LPG), naphtha, and gasoline).

(from)

www.ceoe.udel.edu/oilspill/crudeoil.html

My Note -

Believe it or not – our marine research tax dollars at work -

the above diagram and explanation was provided by:

University of Delaware Sea Grant | Contact Us

***

Next I found this -

has some pretty maps of oil pipelines -(Canada & from there to US) 2006

Canada is the world’s seventh largest producer and a net exporter of crude oil. In 2006, Canada produced an average of 420 149 cubic metres (2.6 million barrels) per day of crude oil. Every day, about 270 147 cubic metres (1.7 million barrels) of crude oil, worth nearly $39 billion, were exported – almost all to the United States.

http://www.neb.gc.ca/clf-nsi/rpblctn/rprt/nnlrprt/2006/nnlrprt2006-eng.html

The NEB regulates approximately 45 000 kilometres of pipelines across Canada. This network includes large diameter, high-pressure natural gas pipelines, crude oil and oil products pipelines, shorter small-diameter pipelines, and a number of commodity pipelines. In 2006, these pipelines shipped over $110 billion worth of crude oil, petroleum products, natural gas liquids and natural gas at an estimated transportation cost of $4.7 billion.

Natural Gas Pipeline System - Canada - 2006 - (NEB)

Natural Gas Pipeline System - Canada - 2006 - (NEB)

(and this one of crude oil pipelines – )

Major Oil Pipelines - Canada - 2006 - (NEB)

Major Oil Pipelines - Canada - 2006 - (NEB)

Additionally, the Board has regulatory responsibilities under the Canada Oil and Gas Operations Act (COGO Act) and under certain provisions of the Canada Petroleum Resources Act (CPR Act) for crude oil and natural gas exploration and production on frontier lands and certain areas offshore Canada’s east, west and arctic coasts (Figure 3).

http://www.neb.gc.ca/clf-nsi/rpblctn/rprt/nnlrprt/2006/nnlrprt2006-eng.html

The NEB continually monitors Canadian energy markets to ensure that Canadians have access to Canadian-produced oil, natural gas and electricity on terms and conditions that are not less favourable than those available to export customers.

The Board also provides data and analysis on a wide range of topics, including energy export volumes and prices, developments in natural gas, crude oil and electricity markets; assessments of the supply, demand and future deliverability of natural gas and oil; and periodic long-term outlooks for Canada’s energy future.

***

http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/topics/

This has a menu of the NOAA’s National Ocean Service – very nifty – with pictures -

***

Going back to google image search for crude oil petroleum

http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/eneene/sources/pripri/marmar-eng.php

How World Oil Markets Work

Canada holds the second largest oil reserves in the world, with over 178 billion barrels of oil. Over the next decade, Canada’s importance as a leading oil producer is expected to increase, as oil sands production is projected to triple. Other key non-OPEC producers include: Russia, the United States, Mexico, China and Norway.

World's Top Ten Crude Oil Reserves Holders - (Oil and Gas Journal, 2006)

World's Top Ten Crude Oil Reserves Holders - (Oil and Gas Journal, 2006)

Oil Producers

There is a great deal of concentration in the world oil industry: just ten companies control 68 percent of the world’s proven oil reserves. Nine of the ten biggest oil reserve holders are state-owned National Oil Companies (NOCs). Many of these were formerly private sector companies that were nationalized in the 1970s. Eight of the ten largest oil producers in the world are NOCs. The others are large integrated private sector energy companies.

***

World's Top 10 Crude Oil Producers - 2005 - Source: Oil and Gas Journal, 2006

World's Top 10 Crude Oil Producers - 2005 - Source: Oil and Gas Journal, 2006

(from)

http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/eneene/sources/pripri/marmar-eng.php

***

My Note -

Found this on a site which attributes where they found it below the chart:

home.comcast.net/~zthustra/articles/how_long.html

United States Crude Oil – Where Does It Come From?

The following pie chart says more than any text could. The United States is only able to domestically extract 36% of the crude oil we consume. Amercians might be surprised to discover that just over 13% of our crude oil comes from Central and South America and just under 13% comes from Africa. The biggest surprise for me was the presence of Kazakhstan on the list of countries from which we import crude oil. We imported 3.34 million barrels of oil from Kazakhstan in July, making them #16 on the list that month.

US Crude Oil

Source: Energy Information Agency (EIA), Petroleum At-A-Glance
(http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/info_glance/petroleum.html)

***

My Note -

Went back to NOAA NOS site and clicked on ocean facts – first square in the left hand corner which opened up a very nifty page with a menu of choices (all pictures – very nifty.)

http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/welcome.html

I had put in a search for

crude oil petroleum spills

which yielded a whole bunch of pictures of tar and crude oil covered stuff that probably came from many spills before the current one – decided not to stay and explore to stay on task (well, loosely stay on task.)

So I made this search next instead -

Gulf of Mexico spill

And, it yields a bunch of results – some of which are from the current oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico -

http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2010/05/04/oil-spill/

Oil Spill

4th May 2010, 05:19 am by Stan

As oil threatens the northern shores of the Gulf of Mexico, the rationalizations, dubious information and spin about the Gulf blowout flow.

In insisting that the blowout at BP’s Deepwater Horizon rig should not deter off-shore oil drilling, U.S. Senator Mary Landrieu of Louisiana said on the Senate floor Friday: “I don’t believe we should retreat.”

Ten days before the blowout occurred and, as she spoke, it was threatening massive environmental and economic damage including to her home state.

She gave the huge oil slick in the Gulf a rainbow hue. “What’s important about this sheen is that 97% of it is a rainbow sheen,” she said in the Senate.

Petroleum Drilling Map - Gulf of Mexico - US Gulf Coast

Petroleum Drilling Map - Gulf of Mexico - US Gulf Coast

***

Mississippi Rive Oil Spill 2008 - USGS Aerial View of Mississippi River and Delta - Louisiana - Gulf of Mexico (USGS)

Mississippi Rive Oil Spill 2008 - USGS Aerial View of Mississippi River and Delta - Louisiana - Gulf of Mexico (USGS)

(from)

deltas.usgs.gov/Archive.aspx

Oil spill threatens Mississippi River delta

On July 23, 2008, a massive oil spill occurred in the Mississippi River when a 600-foot tanker collided with a barge carrying No. 6 fuel oil near New Orleans, Louisiana. The spill affected a 100-mile area from New Orleans to the mouth of the river in the Gulf of Mexico.  More..

***

Then I found this one on the Voice of Russia site -

http://english.ruvr.ru/2010/05/07/7448678.html

May 7, 2010 01:39 Moscow Time

Oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. Photo: EPA
Oil flowing into the sea after the accident on the BP oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico, has reached an island off of Louisiana, reporters were told on Thursday by representatives of the U.S. Coast Guard.
Oil was discovered on one of the islands to the east of the state which is part of one of the oldest nature reserves in the country. It is called Freemason Island and is part of a chain of uninhabited barrier islands covered by the Breton national wildlife refuge.

Oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. Photo: EPA Oil flowing into the sea after the accident on the BP oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico, has reached an island off of Louisiana, reporters were told on Thursday by representatives of the U.S. Coast Guard.

Oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. Photo: EPA Oil flowing into the sea after the accident on the BP oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico, has reached an island off of Louisiana, reporters were told on Thursday by representatives of the U.S. Coast Guard.

BP which is responsible for post-disaster clean up costs reported that it sent a team of specialists to the island with special equipment. “They will do everything possible to protect the wildlife,” said a representative of the company. Although the Coast Guard stated a few days ago that the oil slick had reached Louisiana, traces of oil directly on land have only now been identified for the first time, RIA Novosti reports.
“Oil genocide” in Gulf of Mexico
BP engineers try to cap oil leak

***

SC animal rescue organization to help in Gulf of Mexico oil spill

SC animal rescue organization to help in Gulf of Mexico oil spill

The Center for Birds of Prey in South Carolina has been asked by the Coast Guard to stand by for the possible arrival of hundreds of birds requiring treatment as a result of the oil spill disaster in the Gulf of Mexico.

The SC Center for Birds of Prey recently built a hospital specifically for birds that are victims of oil related injuries. It is, reportedly, the only hospital of its kind on the East Coast of the United States. As many as 300 birds could arrive at the SC Center for treatment. Furthermore, workers from the SC Center for Birds of Prey may travel to the spill area to help in relief efforts.

http://news.sc/2010/05/04/sc-animal-rescue-organization-to-help-in-gulf-of-mexico-oil-spill/

***

Gulf of Mexico oil spill halts surfing for the next months PDF Print E-mail
Written by Editor at SurferToday.com
Monday, 03 May 2010 14:19

The oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico will affect thousands of surfers, kitesurfers, windsurfers and bodyboarders, from Louisiana to Florida, in the USA.

The environmental catastrophe will likely hit the northern coasts of the Gulf of Mexico in the next days.

This will make surfing impossible for a long time in the southern US coastal areas.

All surfers are called to help in the beach cleanup.

Make sure to wear all the skin and lung protection like impermeable gloves and respirators with vapor cartridges.

US President, Barack Obama, said BP is going to pay for this environmental damage caused by the Deepwater Horizon rig.

The Gulf of Mexico oil spill might take months to be defeated.

http://www.surfertoday.com/surfing/3389-gulf-of-mexico-oil-spill-halts-surfing-for-the-next-months

***

Stemming the tide: Waves swamp an oil boom set up off the Gulf coast yesterday. The weather has driven the oil slick onto the shoreline much earlier than anticipated - and if the waves continue to pound the booms they fail to catch much of the oil - April 30, 2010 (AP - UK Mail Foreign Service)

Stemming the tide: Waves swamp an oil boom set up off the Gulf coast yesterday. The weather has driven the oil slick onto the shoreline much earlier than anticipated - and if the waves continue to pound the booms they fail to catch much of the oil - April 30, 2010 (AP - UK Mail Foreign Service) Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-1269957/Gulf-Mexico-oil-spill-threatens-holiday-resorts-Florida-Louisiana.html?ito=feeds-newsxml#ixzz0nbsp9ouB

(from)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-1269957/Gulf-Mexico-oil-spill-threatens-holiday-resorts-Florida-Louisiana.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

And, there are two other photos there also from April 30, 2010

The captions reflect an interesting viewpoint about it -

“Last line of defence: The flimsy oil booms are now all that stands between the birds and other marine life here on Breton Island and along hundreds of miles of the Gulf Coast, and the lethal tar”

(and)

“No way to stop it: Rough winds and waves push against an oil boom set up in a flimsy effort to protect the Louisiana coast yesterday”

(and a little of the text from the article – lots of photos from April)

Fingers of oily sheen were reaching the Mississippi River delta, lapping the Louisiana shoreline in long, thin lines. The slick is estimated to be 600 miles in circumference and is set to devastate hundreds of miles of coastline.

‘It is of grave concern,’ David Kennedy of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, said.

‘I am frightened. This is a very, very big thing. And the efforts that are going to be required to do anything about it, especially if it continues on, are just mind-boggling.’

Time running out: The survival of much wildlife on the Gulf Coast is at stake as the Deepwater Horizon crude oil spill threatens to turn bigger than the Exxon Valdez  (Reuters - UK Mail Foreign Service) - April 30, 2010

Time running out: The survival of much wildlife on the Gulf Coast is at stake as the Deepwater Horizon crude oil spill threatens to turn bigger than the Exxon Valdez (Reuters - UK Mail Foreign Service) - April 30, 2010

****
They apparently don’t think much of the boom containment system either. It doesn’t appear to have done all it was claimed to be able to do – and it wasn’t made with real world sea conditions studied in its design – that is certain.
***
Found this part – just had to put it -
From April 26, 2010
UK Mail Foreign Service - published this chart showing the Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill from the Deepwater Horizon drilling disaster - on April 26, 2010 - graphic from US Coast Guard and industry task force working on the crude oil spill early in the process of cleanup

UK Mail Foreign Service - published this chart showing the Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill from the Deepwater Horizon drilling disaster - on April 26, 2010 - graphic from US Coast Guard and industry task force working on the crude oil spill 6 days into the process of cleanup

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-1269957/Gulf-Mexico-oil-spill-threatens-holiday-resorts-Florida-Louisiana.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

This is one of two photos of the oil slick and crude oil in the Gulf from DigitalGlobe and AP on the By Mail Foreign Service
Last updated at 9:57 AM on 30th April 2010

story from April 30, 2010 -

Lethal: A satellite image taken on Monday by DigitalGlobe shows vessels working to clean up the oil slick - (DigitalGlobe - AP - Mail Online UK)

Lethal: A satellite image taken on Monday by DigitalGlobe shows vessels working to clean up the oil slick - (DigitalGlobe - AP - Mail Online UK)

(Note – Those little things are boats.)
***

That’s all – might work on it some more tomorrow -

- cricketdiane, 05-11-10

That reminds me, I have a son that was born today – maybe thirty years ago (more or less) but he’s too grown up for all that he says – so Happy Birthday, Mr. K – I won’t put it on your facebook page this time . . .

***

That’s really all for tonight – going to sleep now -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8674073.stm

Oil firms ‘set to clash in US Senate’ over rig disaster

Firms in the Gulf of Mexico oil disaster are set to present conflicting claims at the first US Senate hearing, US media say, citing leaked testimony.

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